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Masters of Search episode 48: How ChatGPT reads YouTube, Reddit and your site | David Konitzny, GEO Researcher @ Peec AI cover art
EP 48·Oct 15, 2026·2797

How ChatGPT reads YouTube, Reddit and your site | David Konitzny, GEO Researcher @ Peec AI

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Show notes

🎟️ Masters of Search Conference: 22 October 2026, Berlin. David runs the Query Fan-Out Workshop there, alongside talks from Malte Landwehr, Aleyda Solis and others. Tickets: https://www.masters-of-search.com/conference

Apart from our monthly episodes with Malte Landwehr, David Konitzny is the first guest to come back to this podcast. In episode 2 he was still at the agency KKP, working on organic search. Since then he has joined Peec AI as a GEO researcher, which means he spends the whole day looking at how ChatGPT and the other AI search tools find and pick their sources. He shares most of it on LinkedIn the same day, because a finding can go stale within a week.

This time we went through his latest research. How ChatGPT reads a YouTube video, and why the answer is not what most people assume. What the drop of Reddit and YouTube in ChatGPT's retrieval means. Why so many of ChatGPT's searches started to target one specific domain. And how to tell which of the daily research posts should change your strategy, and which should not.

My 7 biggest takeaways from our conversation:

1. When ChatGPT retrieves a YouTube video, it reads the description, not the video.

David traced the pipeline ChatGPT uses for YouTube. It pulls the video through an external data provider, and what comes back is the text under the video, not the transcript. He tested it with a video on pizza dough: the ingredients listed in the description were what the answer drew on. His advice is to treat the description like a landing page, with all the information you want found, but without keyword stuffing, because YouTube's own algorithm still reads it too.

2. Timestamps you write yourself get retrieved. YouTube's automatic chapters do not.

If you add your own timestamps to the description, they tell ChatGPT what happens where in the video. The answer can then point to a moment, like the minute the pizza goes into the oven. The chapters YouTube generates on its own are not part of what ChatGPT reads.

3. Views, followers and a verified channel give a video a boost when ChatGPT picks between several.

Besides the title, description and URL, the scoring David found also looks at views and followers, grouped into buckets, with a higher bucket worth more. A verified channel helps too. If two videos fit a question, the one with more views is likely to be the one shown in the chat.

4. Reddit's drop in ChatGPT's retrieval is no reason to give up on Reddit.

Reddit, and more recently also YouTube, are retrieved much less by ChatGPT than they used to be. But the numbers are not at zero, there is still a Reddit pipeline in ChatGPT's code, and AI Overviews and AI Mode still retrieve Reddit heavily. Aim for the threads that already show up in your citations, and use Reddit for things like getting a new feature discussed or correcting a wrong claim about your pricing.

5. Under GPT-5.6, more than a quarter of ChatGPT's fan-out searches targeted one specific domain.

With GPT-5.6, ChatGPT started searching in layers. A broad first search finds the brands that matter, and then it runs site: searches on those brands' own domains to check things like price or fit. David measured the share of fan-outs with a site operator rising from between 0.5 and 1% to 28%. When a site: search is used, no other domain can get into those results. Your brand can still be named in the answer, and he sees new domains being added to these searches, so check your fan-outs again. We recorded this the day after GPT-6 became the default, and David's first data since then shows site: searches falling again, which is one more reason to look at your own.

6. Don't change your strategy after every research post you read on LinkedIn.

David compares it to Google core updates: rebuilding your whole strategy after each one was always the worst move. Pick a strategy, test it for at least six months, and learn from what does not work. Only change it when you learn something new, such as a platform you did not know was being retrieved.

7. ChatGPT now reads your page more like a human does, looking for specific words.

In his research on Deep Research, David saw ChatGPT look for specific words on a landing page, like "pricing", and take a snippet from around them. With the newest default model, he sees this pattern all over normal ChatGPT too. So keep the content that matters in your HTML text, not loaded by JavaScript.

Also in this episode: Is a podcast or a screen recording enough for YouTube? David says keep it simple, because the information is what counts. Why is ChatGPT so much easier to research than Google or Claude, and is that a PR strategy? Do you need a different strategy for each AI tool, the way some brands once did SEO for Yandex or Yahoo? And where would he start with GEO? In three places: your own domain, the places people talk about you, and the sources where your competitors are cited and you are not. In his words, be part of the internet.

Let's connect

Niklas on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niklas-buschner/
Radyant on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/radyant/
David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidkonitzny/
Check out Peec AI: https://peec.ai
Masters of Search Conference: https://www.masters-of-search.com/conference

Transcript

Full conversation

via podigee
  • 00:00:00If I'm not mistaken, being a GEO researcher at Peec AI basically means that you are now a LinkedIn influencer right?
  • 00:00:09I think it's the side effect of this.
  • 00:00:12Don't drop Reddit just because somebody on LinkedIn said, It is not used anymore!
  • 00:00:19As you hear, it was not really relevant but somehow there.
  • 00:00:37Right now the number is up to twenty-eight percent so twenty-eight percent of all fanouts have a site operator.
  • 00:00:44to me too.
  • 00:00:45be fast nowadays.
  • 00:00:46if I wait for another week or some other AI model will change And then that's old information.
  • 00:00:52before we dive in You're listening To The Masters Of Search podcast with Me your host Niklas Buschner.
  • 00:00:59Each week, I sit down with some of these smartest people around the world in SEO and AI search to bring you their strategies mental models.
  • 00:01:07And top pieces of actionable advice.
  • 00:01:09if You enjoy this podcast don't forget to like and subscribe and follow it In your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.
  • 00:01:16It helps us get top-notch guests and create the best possible content for you.
  • 00:01:20Let's dive into todays episode.
  • 00:01:22Welcome to the Masters of Search podcast.
  • 00:01:24Today is a very special episode, because for the first time besides our monthly Landwehr format we have a guest here... ...for the second time!
  • 00:01:35For let's say a recap episode but I don't know actually how much time will it take for a recap?
  • 00:01:41Because so many things are happening and probably look more towards the future.
  • 00:01:46David Konitzny, so cool to have you David.
  • 00:01:50Before I introduce you and give a little bit of context i want to put an advertising plug here because we will host the Masters Of Search conference in actually only two weeks time Here In Berlin twenty-second of October And We Still Have A Few Tickets Left And David Will Also Be A Speaker At The Conference.
  • 00:02:14And David, I would like you to tell people why it's a absolutely fantastic idea... ...to still get one of the last tickets and come to The Conference.
  • 00:02:23Yes!
  • 00:02:24First of all thanks for being here once again.
  • 00:02:27You should definitely come to the conference because this is one of bigger conferences right now that are established.
  • 00:02:33That will give you an opportunity to talk about GEO, not just mingling around but also networking people who are speaking there, more or less like experts right now on all the topics.
  • 00:02:46More-or-less because it's still very young I would say a young thing to discuss here and as you said i will be also there!
  • 00:02:55I'll give you small recap in thirty minutes.
  • 00:02:59regarding fanouts how can actually see fan-outs?
  • 00:03:02How do they work with them?
  • 00:03:03Like we're in depth session so really go into conference get last tickets of course join my sessions
  • 00:03:12So cool.
  • 00:03:13Yeah, David will host the workshop.
  • 00:03:15we'll also have other awesome speakers like Jennifer Lapp, previously at HubSpot, now at Brevo.
  • 00:03:22Amir Bohnenkamp, co-founder of Heyflow Malte Landwehr, also basically your boss right?
  • 00:03:28from Peec AI Fabrizio Ballarini.
  • 00:03:32Now Revolut!
  • 00:03:33Previously ten years at Wise Margus Veeber, head of web at Pipedrive will have Aleyda Solis.
  • 00:03:40I think everybody that has spent at least five minutes on LinkedIn knows Aleyda.
  • 00:03:45So cool.
  • 00:03:46Many others, Marvin Müller, Anita Kirkovska
  • 00:03:50etc.,
  • 00:03:51so cool!
  • 00:03:53Yeah check out the link in description.
  • 00:03:54we'll put it there masters-of-search.com slash conference and you find that they're yeah but enough of advertising David The last time we spoke You had a different job.
  • 00:04:10What
  • 00:04:10happened between?
  • 00:04:13What happened?
  • 00:04:14Basically I was talking to Malte and a few months later, I joined Peec AI.
  • 00:04:21That's the very short version of what happened!
  • 00:04:23So previously i was head of product organic at KKP my former agency he was working with And everything was awesome.
  • 00:04:32so...I would never actually go away from an agency that there was an opportunity and I think everybody who is doing SEO or anything in regards of this would decide the same, if you have the opportunity to spend your whole day just on research.
  • 00:04:48Just looking at the biggest database I guess nobody would really say no to a job like this.
  • 00:04:56So, it was one of the onetime chance for you get that question and we want to join!
  • 00:05:03We do have all data which is clear in this regard.
  • 00:05:08Okay but if i'm not mistaken being a GEO researcher at Peec AI basically means your now a LinkedIn influencer right?
  • 00:05:19No, not really.
  • 00:05:21I think it's a side effect of this.
  • 00:05:22so why we are actually so visible on LinkedIn is the reason to share our knowledge.
  • 00:05:29So right now everybody sees this on LinkedIn Everybody sharing everything regarding AI search And everybody of course has a different opinion.
  • 00:05:40Mostly the issue is that those opinions are based on smaller tests, so you have like five prompts to execute for week and based on their results You decide okay this now my hypothesis This result at end.
  • 00:05:54We as research team we do have point-of-data The whole day just looking at patterns And therefore also we share everything because I think this is like the most relevant part, not just keeping knowledge and talking in the office all of time about what's changing but sharing everything.
  • 00:06:14Also to see if others come up with other ideas.
  • 00:06:18so recently we shared everything regarding the leak data that we have from ChatGPT all the search engines that have been used.
  • 00:06:26And of course, we sometimes also have no idea what those search engines are doing.
  • 00:06:31so rely on the community to help us find certain things.
  • 00:06:36do some research from their own share everything.
  • 00:06:39So if you can do this together at the end
  • 00:06:42Cool You published quite a lot and you've been doing Quite A Lot Of Research.
  • 00:06:49If you had to pick one or two of your favorite Insights, favorite projects or however you would call them yourself.
  • 00:06:58What would that be?
  • 00:07:01I will say in particular two things.
  • 00:07:03One of the latest ones i published was regarding YouTube and how ChatGPT
  • 00:07:09in this regard is actually reading YouTube videos Which is kind of different to what everybody else was expecting all time.
  • 00:07:16And second one Is coming on handy nowadays again because Six months ago, I was sharing a small research regarding ChatGPT Deep Research.
  • 00:07:28Everybody knows that deep-research functionality with ChatGPT doesn't matter here right now.
  • 00:07:33but the findings... ...I had there are actually something we see more and more coming in handy for analyzing ChatGPT The default version so to say And i will talk about this today as well.
  • 00:07:46So those were two main paths.
  • 00:07:49uh approaches to my heart right now and everything else that you see on linkedin as i said is like every day research everyday.
  • 00:07:57it's not that I create everything at once, just share in the next coming weeks.
  • 00:08:03It really when I shared something in the morning, sometimes or evening and immediately share something because you need to be fast nowadays.
  • 00:08:11If I wait for another week or some other AI model will change then it's all information so its always a new shit i'm posting so to say
  • 00:08:22Very cool.
  • 00:08:24Can you give us a little insight or summary key takeaways around the YouTube thing?
  • 00:08:30Because I feel like on one hand, You posted something interesting about YouTube but also posted something interesting in Reddit and both as UGC platforms somehow connected.
  • 00:08:47so what did you find there?
  • 00:08:48So, we all have this one chart in mind when ChatGPT was switching from five to point-five to five point six the model version that Reddit went down and retriever.
  • 00:09:01So Reddit is basically not visible anymore.
  • 00:09:04And all these amazing strategies regarding let's use Reddit for our AI visibility and nothing else they Basically build it up.
  • 00:09:11so This was one of those things that be knew about And what I found in the last couple of days was that it's not just Reddit, but also YouTube and other platforms.
  • 00:09:24So there is those UGC platforms so user-generated content platforms that are dropping... ...and this drop from YouTube is NOT connected to the model switch which is kind of interesting here Out of context, so to say.
  • 00:09:39It just happened I think on the twenty-eighth September around this time.
  • 00:09:43So there was no model switch in between.
  • 00:09:45There was nothing happening.
  • 00:09:46it went just down.
  • 00:09:49and what went down?
  • 00:09:50What i mean with is those platforms are not used often anymore On a retrieval And now they're still retrieved.
  • 00:10:03But for ChatGPT, they were one of the main platforms to take all the information out.
  • 00:10:09So we retrieved it all the time so that you could get all the informations.
  • 00:10:12Nowadays, the search works a bit differently.
  • 00:10:15It's going away from just like broader search towards specific searches.
  • 00:10:21That is why we have those site operators For example or the term official in the fan-outs.
  • 00:10:26We are particularly looking at certain domains and platforms To receive this information.
  • 00:10:31So one of the things that I was looking at for those UGC platforms, really hard work right now.
  • 00:10:41All their AI platforms were completely different!
  • 00:10:44That is one main key point here.
  • 00:10:47so don't drop Reddit just because somebody on LinkedIn said it isn't used anymore.
  • 00:10:54Maybe its not for ChatGPT so useful any more but for AI Overviews and AI Mode for any other platform, they have still retrieved quite hard.
  • 00:11:03So I wouldn't say like you shouldn't focus anymore on Reddit because this would be false information and it also really helps in the regards of ChatGPT.
  • 00:11:13as I said we are using Reddit for certain key effects.
  • 00:11:18so if For example, a new product coming out and there's nowhere something written about it.
  • 00:11:24It still makes sense to create like maybe a post on Reddit to have the community discuss this new feature of your platform because disinformation will be retrieved And we'll be used especially good for fact-checking.
  • 00:11:35for.
  • 00:11:36so say So if a lot of people are claiming that you're let's say one of the prizes options You can also use Reddit too.
  • 00:11:44We describe This the sentence and say well those are our pricing options and we're actually not so expensive as others are saying.
  • 00:11:53So this is in regards to Reddit as I said, YouTube it's the same thing that I shared with Retrieval went down doesn't mean that Youtube isn't important but what was really trigger for my next research was a lot of comments on my LinkedIn post were telling me that oh actually ChatGPT is just using the transcripts from your video Transcript part was then frequently because I want to understand how it's actually ChatGPT retrieving information from your video.
  • 00:12:26So this is really like a just basic transcript always with something different, so what you need to know?
  • 00:12:31Understand here is ChatGPT as a set has Like seventy search engines in between or seventy pipelines that's using.
  • 00:12:40so It's not just one single source Let's say Google or Bing, which we all know.
  • 00:12:45But there are like multiple layers of libraries sort to say and like seventy percent off this library belongs to Labrador Which you know by now is the internal index from ChatGPT.
  • 00:12:58And within those pipelines There also a specific pipeline for YouTube.
  • 00:13:02So they're using something To retrieve information From Youtube.
  • 00:13:06Now Of course A lot people Are testing This.
  • 00:13:10paste a YouTube link into my chat, it tells me yeah information couldn't be retrieved.
  • 00:13:17Correct because this is like the life of fetching and fetching is not working for YouTube but the information you to um ChatGPT receiving is coming from different pipelines so they're same.
  • 00:13:27And in this pipeline its really basic thing.
  • 00:13:30Because what's happening here is that just placed one external provider into their pipeline to receive the information.
  • 00:13:38And I think all of you know SerpApi, there are different versions of how you can receive information from Google, from Google News and also different versions off How You Can Actually Get Information From YouTube's!
  • 00:13:51One of those pipelines is actually not taking that transcript but just description underneath your video.
  • 00:13:58And this is what I found out, it's actually getting when it's retrieving a video.
  • 00:14:05so its not looking at the transcripts or videos and all but just reading whats underneath your video.
  • 00:14:13The whole description!
  • 00:14:27So it's kind of easy for everybody to understand.
  • 00:14:29Yeah, It's the description and everything that is in there will be used.
  • 00:14:33so if you have a long Description regarding I did the test i think with pizza dough how To make a perfect Pizza dough?
  • 00:14:40And You could actually find all The ingredients Everything In the Description Which also just a key was referring to at the end.
  • 00:14:48one Of the best things which could be also a good strategy, was you can also include timestamps.
  • 00:14:55So there are automatic time stamps underneath every video that will not be retrieved but actually includes your own timestamps and using those timestamps basically tell them what's inside of the video.
  • 00:15:10And exactly this is then also retrieved for example the answer would like in Admin This video will describe how to create this perfect pizza dough.
  • 00:15:22And in minute seventy, you'll see the pizza dough is going into the oven for example!
  • 00:15:29You need to keep in mind this whole chat.
  • 00:15:49functionality will change the future.
  • 00:15:50So right now we also always see just a plain text.
  • 00:15:55and recently, We also see like products for example showing up images showing up And sometimes if there's The reason for the system so-to say To show you your video Also our video will be shown.
  • 00:16:08For let us say I want to clean my car.
  • 00:16:10How can i clean my windshields in the perfect way.
  • 00:16:14And what technique do I need to put into this?
  • 00:16:17You can see all of a sudden video and as i said, one layer is like your description.
  • 00:16:24The other layers which are also found out were some really interesting parts because it's about you views , your followers.
  • 00:16:35So verify channel.
  • 00:16:37It's kind of easy to achieve.
  • 00:16:38views and Followers might be harder, but I think everybody who is doing this in a Way deeper way than I am i do This.
  • 00:16:48they know certain ways how to increase views and followers And those numbers are also teared in buckets for the same and For every bucket you receive an additional with value.
  • 00:17:01so at the end what you can't do is By all the scorings, the scoring is taking your description into account.
  • 00:17:08Your title, you're description of the URL and it's also taken to account views and followers.
  • 00:17:15so if you have more views than other video that was taken in retrieval Chances are very high that you will be the chosen video to be shown and in a chat version.
  • 00:17:28And this would like what we call it back in the yesterdays, like small boost.
  • 00:17:33so having certain things on your page Will give us more boost?
  • 00:17:38Having like more views and more followers who gives you also more boost for YouTube videos or the same.
  • 00:17:43okay David That was A lot of information and the my job here is to boil it down in a very simple way for people that listen To this they do not spend so much time with all The research as you know, so My first question Is?
  • 00:18:00So should we still Do something on Reddit?
  • 00:18:04We are obviously keeping In mind.
  • 00:18:06We don't want to spam etc.
  • 00:18:08authentic engagement Etc.
  • 00:18:10But Should People Still do Something On Reddit yes or no?
  • 00:18:14Yes, yes for sure.
  • 00:18:16Okay then second question how can people still know which threads or which subreddits are relevant if it's not possible to see transparently?
  • 00:18:27For example in retrieval or citation data in tools like Peec AI Like?
  • 00:18:34How do I know where?
  • 00:18:35two were too.
  • 00:18:36go on Reddit because its obviously a huge platform.
  • 00:18:39As I said, the retrieval data is not at zero.
  • 00:18:43So you will still see certain threads showing up in your citations for example and i would really like aim for those because they are most relevant ones that should be activated.
  • 00:18:54And do you think that beyond the threads and Reddit URLs, we can still see in the retrieval?
  • 00:19:01Do you think there is an indexed corpus etc.
  • 00:19:08that OpenAI amuses that we just cannot see?
  • 00:19:12or does it really think a tiny fraction of what used to be retrieved from Reddit... ...is relevant?
  • 00:19:20and I don't know, OpenAI has changed their mind about the relevancy of Reddit.
  • 00:19:24No, there is actually one pipeline called Reddit within the code that we can see.
  • 00:19:29So they are still storing information and I think their just like trying to understand how use this information way more easier for us.
  • 00:19:39And i would never say switch now or go away from Reddit because you will never know.
  • 00:19:45if this trend going up again at some point where it'll be important again then build everything once again.
  • 00:19:53So keep your things that right.
  • 00:19:56Okay, then for YouTube?
  • 00:19:59Is it still something people should focus on either optimizing existing YouTube videos or creating new YouTube videos?
  • 00:20:07Most definitely because all LLMs are working the same way.
  • 00:20:10search everywhere.
  • 00:20:11so every information about you everywhere will be at some point retrieved and understanding how YouTube is actually retreat from ChatGPT makes just way easier now.
  • 00:20:23Then if people might not have huge budgets, how important is actually the content of this video?
  • 00:20:32Like what's in it compared to packaging.
  • 00:20:37So the title and description And follow up question already How important are these thumbnails?
  • 00:20:43Do we have data on them?
  • 00:20:46Regarding thumbnails, I don't have real data about this but it could be a great research for coming up with that.
  • 00:20:50If you do please
  • 00:20:51tag me on LinkedIn so i can get your spotlight also to my little LinkedIn profile
  • 00:21:00For sure!
  • 00:21:03The whole package is really important.
  • 00:21:05So if u dont' have much money to spend on YouTube, I would still say create the great video because as I said Viewed by other people, but humans.
  • 00:21:15So it's always good to have a nice video and also will be retrieved as I said from other LLMs where its maybe more important especially the transcript specifically for ChatGPT if your whole aim is just focus really importantly on the description.
  • 00:21:32So as I said, use it basically as a landing page where you place in all of your information that you could place and keep in mind that YouTube has also its own algorithm on this zone.
  • 00:21:42so no keyword stuffings would be also brilliant here.
  • 00:21:46And can you say anything about production quality?
  • 00:21:50Because we have when we work with clients they sometimes The first reaction to saying, hey we should create videos for YouTube is yeah but I don't have a production set up and like it costs a load of money blah blah.
  • 00:22:06So does that actually make difference?
  • 00:22:08if the video is?
  • 00:22:10For example a podcast recording like We're doing right now or a loom video where somebody shows something in an interface and just rambles Hopefully with some good information rambits about the topic?
  • 00:22:24or does it really have to be like a full blown production,
  • 00:22:32I don't know.
  • 00:22:32A big budget?
  • 00:22:42Keep it simple.
  • 00:22:42Like a podcast like this right now, where you don't need to spend a ton of money at least that's what I think.
  • 00:22:49like last year You.
  • 00:22:51It is the best way because your just... The whole idea Is To Share Information About You about A Certain Future That You Have Anything else.
  • 00:23:02So this is the most relevant part.
  • 00:23:04everything around it making a nice.
  • 00:23:06yes It might be nice for your CEO who really like wants to have a shiny product here, but at The end its just regarding their information.
  • 00:23:14so keep it Keep it easy.
  • 00:23:17Just record something.
  • 00:23:19maybe you're like a screen recording also completely enough.
  • 00:23:22Make it look nicer bit and then we focus on the information that you are sharing.
  • 00:23:28fun jokes and stuff around it, keep it simple so that's easy to retrieve.
  • 00:23:32Easy to understand!
  • 00:23:33And then the information would be also taken for retrieval.
  • 00:23:37Okay, cool.
  • 00:23:38Now thanks for the quick rapid fire wrap up.
  • 00:23:42I think this is helpful maybe also for the better retrieval of information by humans and agents.
  • 00:23:50Yeah but another thing that i was curious about Is The whole site search aspect because you published some interesting research around, I think especially ChatGPT using the site attribute.
  • 00:24:06Maybe you can also quickly explain then what the side attribute is more heavily in its query fanouts and something that I cared about or that i'm curious about like how often do you see this happening?
  • 00:24:22And...I think maybe it's a question that I care even more.
  • 00:24:27If the query fanouts target a specific domain, do I still have a chance to show up as brand if i'm not this domain or part of these domains?
  • 00:24:42Do you know anything about
  • 00:24:43that?".
  • 00:24:44Yes.
  • 00:24:49So the whole site operator for everybody who's not an SEO, because the SEOs know about this.
  • 00:24:56The site operator is something that we used to use in Google, so when you open up your google view You can put into the search bar sites and the site operator And then a certain domain When you do this?
  • 00:25:17This is like the way how to see what URLs of my domain are basically indexed.
  • 00:25:24And you can actually also add words and so on into this operator to see if there's a certain URL that is index associated with it.
  • 00:25:34So let's say I have like site the second breeder for Peec AI, and then place in the word pricing.
  • 00:25:54They also want just to create a new search engine and they're learning from all the other search engines how their working.
  • 00:26:01And, I think at least with this idea we specifically target certain domains that retrieve more information because back in days it was like broad search.
  • 00:26:14Those fan-outs will be used for a broad search, and then all the information within this search would be used to answer.
  • 00:26:21Now with this operator they can look at certain brands—for example pricing—and really target those brands' domains, look at their pricing, and use these information.
  • 00:26:31This is like very important to keep in mind that it came actually in place on the new Model-Five point six so early August.
  • 00:26:40This was something we saw massively earlier, there were also already signs of this.
  • 00:26:45So early on the term was used in all fan-outs between zero point five and one percent.
  • 00:26:51so as you hear here it wasn't really relevant.
  • 00:26:55but somehow they are right.
  • 00:26:57now The number is up to twenty eight percent.
  • 00:27:00so twenty-eight percent of all fan-outs have a site operator included.
  • 00:27:05And how it works?
  • 00:27:05It's basically We have different layers nowadays.
  • 00:27:10Back in the days, ChatGPT was usually just doing one fan out.
  • 00:27:13So based on your question it was summarizing you're question created as a keyword phrase for its own to use.
  • 00:27:21that first search and this was I said is brought away.
  • 00:27:24And now they test like several layers.
  • 00:27:26so we still have the broad search.
  • 00:27:29let's say i'm looking for running shoes uh...and I've wide feet And so it will look for running shoes, wide feet and within the first layer he'll find different brands.
  • 00:27:41Based on those brands you do a certain search focusing in these brands to use the site operator To find out some further information regarding those shoes.
  • 00:27:51So how wide are their shoes?
  • 00:27:53How pricey they are?
  • 00:27:55Those are then connected with the site operators.
  • 00:27:58If the site operator, if it's used can I still sneak in my domain to this?
  • 00:28:03No.
  • 00:28:04It is a single no because its already aiming for this.
  • 00:28:08but i shared yesterday and new research on from my side what we see since last couple of days.
  • 00:28:18there are URLs or new domains taking into account to the site operator.
  • 00:28:24So when this whole site operator came in place, there was already a certain list of domains that were always targeted probably because OpenAI has so much information already.
  • 00:28:36they knew that certain brands are connected through shoes and other things.
  • 00:28:41Now, they are looking for more information from new domains.
  • 00:28:45And I can see that the numbers of those new domains actually increasing.
  • 00:28:50so it's pretty much at a system recalculating other new informations out there.
  • 00:28:56and then you don't mean that i never have checked previously but should take into account right now.
  • 00:29:01So It makes really sense to check once again your fanouts if their domain is visible or not.
  • 00:29:11Maybe you are now also included, perfect match or you see other competitors and it can basically us all back in the days steal their ideas.
  • 00:29:19Steal what they're doing And try to incorporate this into your strategy as well.
  • 00:29:25Okay so To also do a little rapid fire round-up here.
  • 00:29:31ChatGPT is searching more for specific domains And if it searches for a specific domain with the site operator, then you cannot be part of the results because this is like a binary.
  • 00:29:45If that site operator is used within the main than It only searches for this domain.
  • 00:29:52but still if these site operators are use they're still at chance That your brand even if its not like in the setup writer, can be mentioned.
  • 00:30:03So you don't have to basically say this is all very unjust from open AI and I will write Sam a bad email or review!
  • 00:30:18You still get into response.
  • 00:30:21so no reason stop doing your optimization work right?
  • 00:30:28Exactly, so the hidden club that you have no entrance.
  • 00:30:31Cool and do you see?
  • 00:30:33because this is also something that I?
  • 00:30:36Felt in your research.
  • 00:30:38You are at least it's my impression.
  • 00:30:40please correct me if i'm wrong.
  • 00:30:41you're focusing a lot on ChatGPT In Your Research right?
  • 00:30:46how Is It With Other Models And other Platforms and what is The Reasoning Behind it?
  • 00:30:50like ChatGPT is the biggest platform, obviously.
  • 00:30:54The biggest AI native platform so to say?
  • 00:30:56Is that reason or there just more to uncover?
  • 00:30:59Is it harder to find these patterns and things from Claude... Just
  • 00:31:07please
  • 00:31:08give me a little bit of backstory here.
  • 00:31:11I'm not just focusing on ChatGPT.
  • 00:31:13You need to understand that ChatGPT is one of the easiest tools out there, To understand everything.
  • 00:31:19so we know from a beginning how easy it was to see Fanouts to see anything That this changing within the code Just using The dev tools and It's still really Easy.
  • 00:31:29So it's Not Really A black Box Under.
  • 00:31:32the Only Black Box Is Maybe Just The Data That you don't have?
  • 00:31:37Everything coming from Google is a black box.
  • 00:31:40So it's really hard to understand what they are doing, of course you can see the fanouts here as well but retrieving the data and understanding that this still like something that was really hard for Claude.
  • 00:31:51yes its same behavior with ChatGPT.
  • 00:31:56Then, of course the link linked in brain on my side is like nobody really cares about Claude so much because as you also said first mover effect, ChatGPT's out there everybody's focusing on ChatGPT.
  • 00:32:08So it makes us more fun to share everything regarding ChatGPT and this itself does change so often that its easy to see all those patterns And thats why theres so much research that we can do one on the Claude side.
  • 00:32:21There are not many things changing on a frequently based S for ChatGPT
  • 00:32:26Okay.
  • 00:32:26And do you think that chatGPT is aware of making it easy for people like you to understand this?
  • 00:32:36and then in turn they... So, Is It Basically a PR Strategy?
  • 00:32:40This is my question!
  • 00:32:44This was good question.
  • 00:32:45so at least I hope as the PR strategy of them to do this.
  • 00:32:51otherwise i would be really shocked why?
  • 00:32:54because As I said, you can see everything.
  • 00:32:56So before for example the ads came out in ChatGPT You could see within the code how our ad is structured what it will be used using and Everything else.
  • 00:33:07so you could say well they do have maybe a terrible team on their side not knowing How to hide certain things as Google In the code or The other site could be also like.
  • 00:33:17They don't care.
  • 00:33:18they know that people are seeing this And its awesome.
  • 00:33:20great because Well, people like me share a lot of research on this.
  • 00:33:24So everybody's focusing on ChatGPT.
  • 00:33:26so it's awesome for them!
  • 00:33:28It is really hard to say if they are doing this on purpose or not.
  • 00:33:36certain things for sure that I am NOT doing on purpose.
  • 00:33:38but what i can already say was remember when we had those labels within the code where you could see SERP writes and all the other pipelines that we could see back now in the leak datum.
  • 00:33:49This was there for like two weeks I think, then it was finished.
  • 00:33:53Stuff like this I would say, oh it was a mistake.
  • 00:33:56So somebody executed something.
  • 00:33:58It's visible for everybody.
  • 00:34:00They were aware of that and tried to go back again To an older version.
  • 00:34:04But they didn't calculate with their whole research audience out there.
  • 00:34:08Who just did twenty four hours nothing else Then receiving all the information to do some calculation.
  • 00:34:14So stuff like when you see your pattern And its not here anymore then For sure they don't want to share the information but other things fanouts, I believe they will stay there forever because basically also don't care.
  • 00:34:28For them it's like what would you do with the fans?
  • 00:34:31for us?
  • 00:34:31It is a gold mine as we can see so many patterns in here.
  • 00:34:36And do you still feel like, because this is a question that I get quite often now by ChatGPT.
  • 00:34:42We obviously have quite a lot of transparency due to all the research that your publishing?
  • 00:34:48For example and Obviously the good OpenAI PR strategy But do use it's.
  • 00:34:55how different are the mechanisms for the different interfaces Like How Different Is Claude really to ChatGPT?
  • 00:35:02how different is AI Overviews to ChatGPT?
  • 00:35:05he and I know just too.
  • 00:35:08Spare that part maybe, but behind the scenes obviously they're different.
  • 00:35:15so factually different tools.
  • 00:35:17working like Claude uses the Brave web search at least I think it's still the case
  • 00:35:21etc.,
  • 00:35:23Like how different can search really be?
  • 00:35:25this is what I'm curious about because people often approach me with hey Do we do?
  • 00:35:30We need completely different strategies for AI Overviews, AI Mode, ChatGPT and Claude And then also maybe for enterprise companies for Copilot.
  • 00:35:39What would you say to that?
  • 00:35:41actually yes Do this mind game which on your own right now if he asks ten people To search for something for something be simple And everybody has their own preferred tools that they are looking at.
  • 00:35:55Some of them you're looking at Reddit, some of them I using like Instagram for getting information and this is the same with all those different LLMs.
  • 00:36:04All Of Them Are Using Different Sources.
  • 00:36:06Google Is Using The Whole.
  • 00:36:07Google Universe Of Course can scrape, sometimes I'm not allowed to scrape.
  • 00:36:13Google Universe need to go to Brave to Bing and once you are on the site do get also different results.
  • 00:36:20You got all so different information And this is like really what we see right now.
  • 00:36:25So of course using or waiting a difference sources differently completely different.
  • 00:36:33So for broader thing, of course if I asked like what is the main city of Paris or France everybody will say that there's no web search included but as soon you start to do a web search information could be completely different and this just like waiting behind scenes.
  • 00:36:52so yeah You need to have two different strategies AI too, I would say because most of the people are just focusing on ChatGPT.
  • 00:37:05You don't need to use a strategy that is only working for Claude or DeepSeek.
  • 00:37:11DeepSeek's also something completely different.
  • 00:37:13So my main goal will be here.
  • 00:37:15if you have something like those UGC platforms That you see like Reddit Don't go with the hype so we won't focus anymore.
  • 00:37:25Keep in mind there were several different engines Back in the days with SEO, everybody was just doing SEO on Google.
  • 00:37:33Nobody cared about being Yahoo!
  • 00:37:35Yandex and so on but there were still specific brands that really focused on this because they got more traffic from Yandex – from
  • 00:37:43Yahoo!,
  • 00:37:43So you need to have experts who understand how is this engine working?
  • 00:37:48And what do we need to do differently?
  • 00:37:49This is a same story here right now as well.
  • 00:37:59adjust or do little tweaks on their GEO, AI search strategies based on new research that's coming out.
  • 00:38:10So if for example I see you posting something because a lot of people listening to this feel overwhelmed by the amount of new information thrown at them every day.
  • 00:38:28Would you say that it makes sense to change stuff with every new release and everything, or how could people differentiate signal from noise?
  • 00:38:40Or what's your mental model also.
  • 00:38:43My mental models are overloaded as always full of information.
  • 00:38:50I would again compare this to SEO back in the day.
  • 00:38:55so whenever a core update came up And the worst part you could ever do was like whenever a core update is there, I need to change my whole strategy.
  • 00:39:04This was never something you should actually keep up your strategy.
  • 00:39:08as long as you believe and have this strategy i think it's just the first layer.
  • 00:39:12You need to have a strategy.
  • 00:39:13so Reddit is not a strategy for AI or YouTube also has another strategy.
  • 00:39:18Need to understand what how its retrieved?
  • 00:39:22So understanding search everywhere every information out there can be used, this is something you need to understand.
  • 00:39:29What we are sharing sometimes is giving more a hint towards how those systems that working so people do have better understanding.
  • 00:39:38Do I need to adjust my strategy because previously i was just focusing on Reddit as said and now somebody posted it's actually everything else.
  • 00:39:48well So its like in different layer inclusion into your strategy But don't change your strategy after every post.
  • 00:39:56People post everyday something, so I wouldn't change everything in that strategy.
  • 00:39:59and also this is not a strategy.
  • 00:40:01if you'll change ever similar daily base then You don't have a strategy at all.
  • 00:40:05the best strategies.
  • 00:40:06If you stick to Something And test it At least for six months see if It's working and learning from Your own mistakes.
  • 00:40:13So This Is Also like what we are always Doing Like Learning What is Working?
  • 00:40:16What is Not Working and doing another round of this.
  • 00:40:18so i would say Definitely need to do is like check if there's something completely new for you.
  • 00:40:25So, um... Something that we're never aware of Like certain platforms are retrieved Certain ways how images or videos are received.
  • 00:40:35This could change your strategy Of course But If somebody saying all of a sudden Oh I see a peak in governmental domains That they now retrieve Your strategy shouldn't be.
  • 00:40:45You have to have connection with the governmental domain To get product layer on this Mm-hmm, and
  • 00:40:53what would you maybe on that note again?
  • 00:40:57What would you generally say if people are just getting started for example with on their geo Journey?
  • 00:41:05because I feel like a lot of people might They.
  • 00:41:08they might have been doing something for SEO obviously but they didn't Put dedicated focus on AI search or do.
  • 00:41:16Oh, what would she's saying also based on your overloaded mental model.
  • 00:41:23No, just kidding based on your enormous context knowledge that you have about this whole space the how these platforms really work what would you say?
  • 00:41:32Would be like three best ways to start or what should things focus?
  • 00:41:41first if people want to put dedicated focus
  • 00:41:47The first thing you already said is like stick with your SEO team and what they are doing.
  • 00:41:52So make your domain visible, make it retrievable.
  • 00:41:56place all the information in there that you want to get retrieved.
  • 00:41:59as I said There's a site operator for ChatGPT in use so They're actually looking at their own domain as well.
  • 00:42:05It's not just everybody else but your domain.
  • 00:42:08A second, figure out where people are actually talking about you.
  • 00:42:13So I understand where they're talking about.
  • 00:42:15is this like a review platform?
  • 00:42:17Is there different platforms?
  • 00:42:20talk about you and your brand, the visible there.
  • 00:42:24And if there is a lot of negative way talking about it try to change this not aggressively but over time.
  • 00:42:32try be more like part community share stuff with them.
  • 00:42:36The third layer would figure out where your competitor are actually visible.
  • 00:42:41You can do this with tools like Peec AI where you just look at the citations, then the domains and see whether there's a certain gap.
  • 00:42:51Where your competitors are mentioned And you unlock mentions so comparison portals Newspapers and so on Then try to find out of way to sneak in somehow through PR campaigns With normal PR ways are different ways to be really part of a discussion.
  • 00:43:07I would say this is like the difference, and I'd say oh you just care about how look-like?
  • 00:43:12How your domain is retrieved?
  • 00:43:14How information's
  • 00:43:14there?".
  • 00:43:15And in AI we really care what people talk about you... ...how visible your brand or product is.. ..and where well received everything is!
  • 00:43:24Of course if the information that it out here also still through because some other information might be For a long time, out of date they are not true anymore.
  • 00:43:33So make it also visible.
  • 00:43:35so be part the internet at the end.
  • 00:43:38That's one of the biggest advisable gifts
  • 00:43:41I like that quote Be Part Of The Internet.
  • 00:43:45This is good.
  • 00:43:48It´s not Neuland any more.
  • 00:43:50this joke only Germans will understand.
  • 00:43:53Okay cool David, we already covered quite a lot of stuff but I know maybe you have something in mind that we should talk about.
  • 00:44:04That we haven't talked about.
  • 00:44:05and as probably frequent listener for this podcast... You know it's always my question!
  • 00:44:12So what didn't we talk about?
  • 00:44:14We should've talked about.
  • 00:44:16And one thing i said at the beginning regarding ChatGPT deep research.
  • 00:44:20so.. One key finding here was that ChatGPT is reading your a landing page which we know about this, so it's retrieving the information.
  • 00:44:29What is new or what was knew?
  • 00:44:31It looks for specific words and tries to find them on your landing page.
  • 00:44:36just get a snippet of these.
  • 00:44:38So let say again pricing will look forward.
  • 00:44:41pricing in your content.
  • 00:44:46Why am I saying this?
  • 00:44:47Because right now with the new default version six, so that was yesterday announcement.
  • 00:44:52That know in a UI their model is switched from five point six to six.
  • 00:44:57So we just jumped four positions and we do see all of a sudden This pattern Just exploding.
  • 00:45:03So ChatGPT is reading like a human being sort of say your domain or your landing pages Right Now And it makes sense.
  • 00:45:11So make sure that everything is in your HTML text, not a JavaScript or something like this.
  • 00:45:17This ensures what we couldn't cover right now but which should come up the next time.
  • 00:45:21Okay so cool I think We will probably have you on at least once more based On the amount of stuff You're putting out.
  • 00:45:29i can highly recommend to anyone That wants To see More.
  • 00:45:36hear more about what David is spending his whole day with on LinkedIn.
  • 00:45:44We'll put the link to your profile in.
  • 00:45:56So so cool.
  • 00:45:57Thanks so much, David for making the time.
  • 00:45:59I guess you have to jump right back into GPT six research and Curious to see if he will still put something out today or maybe tomorrow.
  • 00:46:12And yeah thanks so much for all your great insights.
  • 00:46:17So having me and see you soon at the conference
  • 00:46:19Yes, use another conference looking forward it bye-bye.