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Masters of Search episode 47: From Banning AI Bots to the Most-Cited Source | Marvin Müller, VP @ OMR Reviews cover art
EP 47·Sep 28, 2026·3957

From Banning AI Bots to the Most-Cited Source | Marvin Müller, VP @ OMR Reviews

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Show notes

Marvin Müller joined OMR Reviews in 2021 as its first marketing hire, back when the platform held around 4,000 reviews. It has since passed 85,000, and the business is heading towards ten million euros in revenue. He came to it from Google in Dublin, where he spent his early career in search and performance marketing.

The interesting part is what happened in between. OMR Reviews grew on SEO — Marvin calls it the internal religion of the team — and then Google's AI Overviews rolled out in Germany. Impressions kept climbing to an all-time high. The clicks stopped arriving. Their first move was to block the LLM crawlers, and this episode is mostly the story of why they reversed that.

It worked. In the study OMR Reviews ran with Radyant — around 20,000 chats across five models and eight software categories, on German-language prompts — OMR Reviews came out as the single most-cited source of the roughly 8,000 domains analysed, ahead of YouTube and Reddit. After a hard 2024 the platform is now growing faster than ever and heading towards ten million in revenue.

My 6 biggest takeaways from our conversation:

1. The platform worked because it launched inside an existing audience, not on a green field.

Marvin says plainly that starting this from nothing would not have worked at this ambition — the authority, trust and network were already there. The clearest example is content: two people in-house could write two to four articles a week, so they opened it to the experts already in the OMR ecosystem, who wanted the byline. Output went to roughly ten a week without the quality drop volume usually brings.

2. A review platform only works as a trust layer if most submitted reviews never get published.

Only about 25% of reviews that people start end up live. Sign-in is tied to a LinkedIn account or a business email, a scoring model flags anything that looks off, flagged reviewers get asked for a screenshot proving they use the software, and a human checks every review that survives that. The filter is the product.

3. A profile rated 4.0 to 4.5 persuades more than a profile rated 5.0.

Buyers treat a wall of five-star reviews as a reason to leave. Marvin actively advises vendors to ask their unhappy users too — partly because the mixed picture is what reads as real, and partly because a public reply to a critical review is the most trustworthy thing a vendor can show.

4. Blocking the AI crawlers was the wrong instinct, and reversing it mattered more than any on-site optimisation.

The first reaction was protective: the team had worked hard on the content, so they shut the LLM crawlers out. Marvin's own verdict now is that it was a stupid idea. The bots were coming for the one thing the platform has that a vendor's own site never will — neutral information written by users — and shutting the door meant being absent from the moment a buyer builds a shortlist.

5. What happens off your own site now decides more of your AI visibility than what happens on it.

This is the line Marvin is most willing to be held to. Models weigh what media write about you, what users say on review platforms, what sits on Reddit, with the weighting differing from chatbot to chatbot. On-site content and structure still matter, but they are no longer the larger half.

6. Nobody has solved measuring what AI search does to pipeline, and that is what stops most teams starting.

Asked what we had not covered, this is what he reached for. You can count citations and mentions, and post-purchase surveys show an incremental uplift. What you cannot yet do is connect AI search to revenue in a way a CFO accepts — so teams who need a click-based number before they act keep not acting.

Also in this episode: why German buyers want local evidence, and the opening that left for a DACH-focused platform when G2 and Capterra were not really playing there; why listing your software is free and visibility genuinely cannot be bought; whether a platform can persuade buyers to start on it rather than in a chatbot; why Marvin thinks vendors will end up offering parts of their products headless; and why agentic commerce hits a wall in B2B, because somebody still has to defend the purchase to their manager.

Let's connect

Niklas on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niklas-buschner/
Radyant on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/radyant/
Marvin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marvin-mueller/
Check out OMR Reviews: https://omr.com/de/reviews

Transcript

Full conversation

via podigee
  • 00:00:00German decision makers.
  • 00:00:02They want to see local content when they check for software that they don't wanna see.
  • 00:00:06okay what is some person in the US writing about this software?
  • 00:00:10overall, The trend is really clear that off-site signals and off-side authority at trust signals are super important When you want to be successful an AI search.
  • 00:00:21do
  • 00:00:21remember the days when a I overview started to roll out in Germany?
  • 00:00:27And he saw that Traffic is either flat or declining.
  • 00:00:31How did that feel?
  • 00:00:32We were at the beginning, I would say for sure in a little bit of panic mode.
  • 00:00:37What are we doing now when this part of our business That it's so important to us Is shrinking a little
  • 00:00:43before we dive In?
  • 00:00:45you're listening To The Masters Of Search podcast with me your host Niklas Buschner.
  • 00:00:50Each week i sit down With some of these smartest people around the world and SEO And AI search to bring You their strategies mental models and top pieces of actionable advice.
  • 00:01:00If you enjoy this podcast, don't forget to like and subscribe.
  • 00:01:04then follow it in your favorite podcasting app or YouTube.
  • 00:01:07It helps us get top-notch guests And create the best possible content for you.
  • 00:01:11Let's dive into todays episode.
  • 00:01:13My guest Today is Marvin Müller.
  • 00:01:16He´s VP Marketing at OMR Reviews The biggest software review platform In the DACH region.
  • 00:01:22For everybody that has never heard of DACH, it's Germany, Austria and Switzerland, but here in Europe we call it DACH.
  • 00:01:31He joined as the first marketing hire in twenty-twenty one when the platform had around four K reviews on it And today its past eighty five thousand.
  • 00:01:40so curious to see When they will reach a hundred K. OMR Reviews is in a very interesting position.
  • 00:01:46They grew A lot with SEO But when AI overviews started To roll out they lost quite a Lot of their clicks.
  • 00:01:54Now after the dust settled sort of they are one of the most cited sources when an AI answers a software question.
  • 00:02:02So all's well.
  • 00:02:03that ends.
  • 00:02:04Well, we'll find out today.
  • 00:02:07Very happy to have Marvin on the podcast.
  • 00:02:08and one quick note before we start into the conversation.
  • 00:02:12We have the great honor to have OMR Reviews as a partner for our conference, the Masters of Search Conference we are hosting on October.
  • 00:02:21twenty-second twenty-twenty six here in Berlin.
  • 00:02:25It will be a hand curated list of attendees around one hundred seventy five maybe you few more.
  • 00:02:32let's see how much the location Will allow us.
  • 00:02:35but we will Have A lot Of Great Talks from People like Malte Landwehr Aleyda Solis.
  • 00:02:40We have workshops from people like Margus Veeber, head of web at Pipedrive.
  • 00:02:45People from Peec AI and Marvin will actually also have a keynote there which is so cool.
  • 00:02:50I'm looking forward to it!
  • 00:02:52So if you haven't made any plans yet for October twenty second come to Berlin.
  • 00:02:58If your not in Berlin yet get the ticket.
  • 00:03:00we still have few tickets left.
  • 00:03:02And yeah put link into that inscription.
  • 00:03:05but now enough with intro.
  • 00:03:07welcome to the podcast Marvin.
  • 00:03:09Thank you, Niklas.
  • 00:03:10And thank you so much for having me.
  • 00:03:11I'm super excited to be on your show today.
  • 00:03:14Yeah So cool to have you.
  • 00:03:15i think people from the OMR world always has such a positive vibe and are also sharing with knowledge.
  • 00:03:25It's very much appreciated.
  • 00:03:28Let start everybody that may not know yet A little bit about back story.
  • 00:03:34How did end up at OMR Reviews?
  • 00:03:37It's actually a fun story.
  • 00:03:38I don't think i've ever told this in English before, but... ...I started my career at Google and Ireland after university as marketing strategist.
  • 00:03:48so the idea was to learn more about marketing find out different business models.
  • 00:03:54basically And that is where you are in the ZR space or search advertising space.
  • 00:04:00There got know lot of different business model.
  • 00:04:04I had the pleasure to advise from e-commerce, platforms and media publishers through lead generation business models.
  • 00:04:14That was actually fun.
  • 00:04:15learning very much.
  • 00:04:18learnful is that word?
  • 00:04:19No i learned a lot there but... Insightful!
  • 00:04:25But then the corona pandemic came And that was for me the chance to, first of all travel built because then decided I don't want to spend a corona pandemic in Ireland where it's rainy all the time and i'm not allowed to go outside.
  • 00:04:42So um...I've been traveling around Europe quite a bit.
  • 00:04:46I visited my sister in Italy Then went to Greece, to Malta.
  • 00:04:50did some diving there In this period reflected a little bit on what I want to do and not want.
  • 00:05:00For me, then came the decision point even though Google is great employer you've got lots of cool benefits.
  • 00:05:09it's time for me really focus on known projects.
  • 00:05:13there was also times where thought about maybe i should found something or join project that am excited about.
  • 00:05:25It was probably the same time when I heard in the OMR podcast for the non-German speakers.
  • 00:05:31This is probably the biggest German speaking business podcast there is of OMR founder, Philipp Westermeyer.
  • 00:05:39He then at one point told him his podcasts that they're having a new project and their starting a new product.
  • 00:05:45it's called OMR Reviews And its software review platform for the german speaking markets.
  • 00:05:51That sounds actually quite cool because I have the background in search, I've had a background in advising media companies as well as lead generation business models and actually fits quite.
  • 00:06:01Well why don't i just shoot attacks to filibuster my own Instagram not hoping for any reply basically?
  • 00:06:08And that just did!
  • 00:06:08I was like okay what's the worst thing that can
  • 00:06:10happen?!
  • 00:06:11Just text him.
  • 00:06:12at that time he already...I don't know..at thirty thousand followers or so.
  • 00:06:16So I thought ok there is another chance im ever gonna get a reply from him.
  • 00:06:20But then after fifteen minutes or so I received the text.
  • 00:06:23It was like, yeah actually your profile sounds interesting.
  • 00:06:26please go and talk to Owe.
  • 00:06:28And then Uwe together with Felix Rahlmeyer The ones that started the OMR Reviews project in-house.
  • 00:06:39Then i got to know them.
  • 00:06:41They invited me come to Hamburg put up a big show for me.
  • 00:06:46So I was invited in the Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten, which is like a grand hotel for two nights and it was invited to the office to get to know all the people there are from Isar Gard who's the CMO of OMR... ...to all other people from the team.. And in the end even Philipp Westermeyer showed up!
  • 00:07:05When we then sat together afterwards on a tapas bar that is quite just right across the office And had some some wines together.
  • 00:07:14I thought okay that feels right That sounds interesting to me and i want to join this project, and then i started as the first marketer at OMR Reviews.
  • 00:07:23So cool before we dive into OMR Reviews more can you give?
  • 00:07:26Me a little sense of how it is to work in In Dublin because i feel like there's this big a hub of tech companies with Google and Meta, LinkedIn and Salesforce.
  • 00:07:42So what's the vibe like there?
  • 00:07:45Yeah that is very good question.
  • 00:07:47I think it perfect for people who don't want to give up university yet because you come into those international office spaces all the young people working for the tech companies that are all coming straight from university.
  • 00:08:05And, and for me I was one of those people...I didn't want to do a master's degree but i still felt like okay also don't wanna leave uni quite yet!
  • 00:08:17Then at that gift gave perfect place there.
  • 00:08:21so lot of young people lots of fun.
  • 00:08:23you do alot stuff afterwards you do sports..you go to pubs obviously And yeah, that felt pretty cool.
  • 00:08:31That's also the reason why all those benefits kind of went away during the pandemic because then it was just Dublin which is a beautiful city but not so great when you are forced to stay inside and force to enjoy all the benefits.
  • 00:08:52So there for me was the right time.
  • 00:08:54Then looks
  • 00:08:55like let's look a little bit at your first moves and home reviews.
  • 00:08:59I remember i don't know exactly which year it was that someone from the OMR Reviews team reached out to me already then running an agency obviously, yeah?
  • 00:09:12And they had this idea how i could contribute to OMR Reviews in a felt like.
  • 00:09:17also when i reflect on this now did you have pretty smart SEO strategy back then?
  • 00:09:22so my question is Who came up with that strategy?
  • 00:09:25was that you or and can you tell the audience a little bit about what she did there.
  • 00:09:32So no, that strategy didn't come out for me.
  • 00:09:34I think it was Katarina Eken or Andreas Schmunk who came up this idea.
  • 00:09:42but at the time i was like okay this quite genius let's do it.
  • 00:09:46so at the beginning of starting to platform we also talked a lot off you know two SEO specialists, for example Kevin Indig by that time already a big name in SEO when he advised us all so little bit because.
  • 00:10:00If u if u believe it or not we didn't have one SEO specialist uh... at the time at OMR Reviews.
  • 00:10:09so everything we did there was basically self learning.
  • 00:10:11i'm learning under job from from mandi who was giving the... No, how do you say it?
  • 00:10:21He got a special kind of incentivization.
  • 00:10:25So for every zero point one jump in the Sistrix Visibility Index.
  • 00:10:30by then he was forced into early days to drink small Jägermeister.
  • 00:10:35and so that's what we had back there now different but quite fun with this idea that we reach a level where we cannot produce more.
  • 00:10:54articles in-house because when we start the platform, it was a lot about okay.
  • 00:10:59We need to create top of funnel content with a funnel uh content To basically get that traffic on the platform.
  • 00:11:04That then goes back to the profiles to the listicles and so on.
  • 00:11:08but we needed to get the traffic first.
  • 00:11:10So we need to um write a lot About you know?
  • 00:11:12Um top off funnel content how to do something?
  • 00:11:15what's best for?
  • 00:11:17I don't know What are strategies for xyz?
  • 00:11:20And he realized that probably produce two to four articles per week with two people in-house or we reach out this huge network of experts that are in the OMR atmosphere and in the OMR ecosystem anyway.
  • 00:11:41And just ask them, hey do you want to write an article on your favorite topic?
  • 00:11:46On omr.com which by then already had a really strong domain authority.
  • 00:11:51So for them it was basically, of course I want to do this because you know be seen as an expert if i'm getting the chance to write for OMR.com and first there's a chance to basically write less own articles.
  • 00:12:06but that is not a problem Because we are now experts in every field.
  • 00:12:09It actually has been win situation If really let people who are experts on their fields from the OMR ecosystem Write articles about stuff they're good at And so go from four articles per week to maybe two that are written in-house, but eight data coming from the ecosystem.
  • 00:12:26So basically getting from two or ten articles a week to scale up content – not just content because this is really good content right?
  • 00:12:38Because they have people who really have expertise on writing these contents and it helps us to scale quite a lot of content production
  • 00:12:47I feel like.
  • 00:12:47for me back then, it was also the OMR brand where felt like yeah okay of course i want to be associated with OMR and publishing something under my name on the OMR domain is something that we are proud of.
  • 00:13:03And when we got a backlink for example... ...I think it was beneficial for our Domain Authority.
  • 00:13:09What would you say?
  • 00:13:10Because.. The concept of a review platform wasn't YOU when you started it So there were the other ones.
  • 00:13:17We don't want to name them now International players, but what would you say?
  • 00:13:23How much was the contribution of the OMR brand to make this Project kick off the way we're able to kick it off and also making the success that is now?
  • 00:13:35yeah I said this a couple of times and i will say again on a green field it would have never been possible to kick off the project with this ambition because basically you live from authority, trust and network.
  • 00:13:56All those things are attributes that OMR had already in place.
  • 00:14:02so we see Quite actually quite often that people are now with AI trying to build another software directory and we even get sometimes offers.
  • 00:14:11So I have built this, you should buy it now for one million dollars otherwise You've got a problem in the year.
  • 00:14:19You should learn a little bit more about this business model and what really counts in the end.
  • 00:14:23so we are quite relaxed on that point.
  • 00:14:26But, We really saw the opportunity there when we focus on the DACH market because back in days There was situation at international markets were already crowded by G2 and Capterra.
  • 00:14:42You said you don't want to name them but I will name them for sure because they are really doing a great job and they're really really doing cool stuff!
  • 00:14:50But um... They were not really active on the German speaking markets And we really saw chance there.
  • 00:14:57Because also.. German decision makers ...they want to see local content as well.
  • 00:15:04So what do wanna when they check for software, that they don't want to see?
  • 00:15:08okay what is some person in the US or someone in India writing about this software.
  • 00:15:16Also because local software stack kind of different from American ones.
  • 00:15:21we have very good local solutions here and really cool.
  • 00:15:25local software players are under represented on English speaking markets And German decision makers also.
  • 00:15:32other stuff that is important, like for example local GDPR compliance where a server's located.
  • 00:15:41Does it integrate with SAP or DATEV?
  • 00:15:43So things Probably not top of mind for American software vendors when they list the software, but here in Germany very important things and very important attributes that we can cover by being local.
  • 00:16:00And having local reviews because you also want to get their trust from comparable people that have written a review platform.
  • 00:16:09When you're an media agency of around twenty people, You want to know what other media agencies of twenty people in Germany are using and why they use it?
  • 00:16:20And if the solution might benefit me... The other thing was That there's also an OMR reaction to the corona pandemic because definitely we were at the very difficult time as a company because we also had to think about how can we still employ people when the OMR festival, so biggest and most revenue strong product of OMR cannot take place for two years.
  • 00:17:00And how do we keep software vendors connected to us?
  • 00:17:02Because back then and still today, software vendors make around fifty percent of the clients at the OMR festival as well.
  • 00:17:10We thought about okay... How can we basically connect them with a new product that does what software seekers do on a festival namely going out, checking our software when you're seeing what other people are talking about them.
  • 00:17:30Talk to peers about them!
  • 00:17:32This is stuff that happens offline at the OMR Festival and we wanted create a space in the digital world where this was more or less also possible And We were not a fan of doing digital fairs Where You walk around with weird avatars... In The end it's basically reviews because Connecting the vendors is talking about them.
  • 00:17:53It's getting it's getting connected with them.
  • 00:17:56So besides all of the bad that Resulted out of the COVID pandemic at least here also.
  • 00:18:03for you, it was a driving force Of innovation and that's obviously something that worked out quite well.
  • 00:18:09now You had this great brand Obviously behind you And amongst a lot of other things, pretty smart marketing strategies for example the SEO strategy we talked about.
  • 00:18:22What would you say before the whole AI overviews and AI search phase or era basically started?
  • 00:18:31How important was Search or was SEO to the platform?
  • 00:18:37The single most important?
  • 00:18:41I would even say, okay, SEO back then was kind of our internal religion.
  • 00:18:45We were really like praying to the SEO god for every one point.
  • 00:18:49zero jump in a visibility index.
  • 00:18:52so yeah because basically we said if you want to get relevance... ...we need to acquire lot of traffic.
  • 00:18:58with traffic comes reviews come more vendors comes more users And so we focused a lot on doing everything that we could in order to be strong and search.
  • 00:19:09We even decided at the beginning, we wanted to kick off OMR Reviews and also invested quite a bunch of money in search engine advertising.
  • 00:19:18So paying to Google but then at one point really switched just strategy instead okay?
  • 00:19:24The resources that we invest there...we want to invest organic content.
  • 00:19:31so basically getting more zero strategists on board, getting more journalists onboard.
  • 00:19:39that right content for us.
  • 00:19:41So really full focus and organic content to make the platform bigger!
  • 00:19:49And do you remember those days when AI overviews started rolling out in Germany?
  • 00:19:57Maybe you looked at the search console or someone on the team.
  • 00:19:59Looked that the Search Console, or in some dashboards and You saw that traffic is either flat or declining?
  • 00:20:06And then It kept declining.
  • 00:20:09how did That feel like?
  • 00:20:10do you remember maybe a particular moment also where you had discussion with The Team Like what's going On?
  • 00:20:16yeah Yeah um There are two moments.
  • 00:20:20The first one is that ChatGPT moment where we thought, okay there's something along the way... ...that could definitely play a role in the future but even bigger ones.
  • 00:20:33you said Google launching AI overviews.
  • 00:20:37basically from day to night The crocodile mouth opened, so we saw on our impressions and visibility.
  • 00:20:45We're still growing today!
  • 00:20:48It's an all-time high when it comes to our visibility but the clicks that are resulting from them getting lower And at the beginning I would say for sure in a little bit of panic mode.
  • 00:21:03So what are you doing now?
  • 00:21:05When this part is important is shrinking a little bit.
  • 00:21:11And that even led to reactions, we at the beginning forced crawlers of LLMs out our system so were really blocking them because said okay want protect content and reviews worked hard basically on platform.
  • 00:21:36The first panic reaction, but it was also the time where then I learned a lot more about all this geo stuff and AI search that was coming up.
  • 00:21:52So how is this actually working?
  • 00:21:54How could we benefit from
  • 00:21:55that?".
  • 00:21:55And there's always software tracking tools like Peec AI, Otterly, RankScale and so come up.
  • 00:22:03And I will decide okay...I should probably talk to them and see how big our influence is there?
  • 00:22:10How often does the site actually get cited when people are asking for software related
  • 00:22:17queries?".
  • 00:22:19And i was quite surprised back then but positively surprised that our content is cited very, very often.
  • 00:22:28We're on the number one first-sided source for many software categories when people are searching what's the best CRM tool or project management tool and then our content comes up really strong.
  • 00:22:44as I said there's a chance because this channel currently coming up nobody understands it.
  • 00:22:51we can be at the forefront Also go out and educate the market, especially software vendors that AI search is getting more important.
  • 00:23:01And smart ways to work with this channel.
  • 00:23:04One smart way of working on this channel... I mean we did a study around there also focusing on third-party platforms or media platforms in order to strengthen your position at AI Search.
  • 00:23:21Not to get all the visibility, because we are not a channel that you turn on and then say in our next day.
  • 00:23:25You're suddenly visible?
  • 00:23:27That's...that's not how it works but is really important factor plays an role in your overall visibility in AI search.
  • 00:23:37Yeah, on that note also to the study we will link it in the description and you can also search for it.
  • 00:23:43if You go to Google and say OMR Reviews Radyant software study or Something like which sources do LLMs site?
  • 00:23:54For software queries.
  • 00:23:56And We actually ran around twenty thousand chats across five models an eight software categories.
  • 00:24:03Obviously you could also make this bigger and I'm Spoilering a little bit.
  • 00:24:07We're working in the background on a new research project where we might Try to bring this honor like ten X scale, but let's see.
  • 00:24:18But as Marvin rightfully said OMR Reviews is actually the number one cited single source across All eight thousand something domains analyzed ahead of YouTube ahead of Reddit.
  • 00:24:33At that point also there was not GPT-5.6 already rolled out.
  • 00:24:39That has now changed a little bit with how Reddit is treated and I would say lack of transparency... Is Reddit really not relevant anymore?
  • 00:24:48Or just not shown?
  • 00:24:50so ChatGPT prevents the manipulation of Reddit
  • 00:24:54etc.?
  • 00:24:55Don't want to get into too much details on that But it's absolutely correct.
  • 00:25:01OMR Reviews is, especially for German speaking, we did German-speaking prompts here but I would say probably in the German market even if you ask in English You will also have a very strong position.
  • 00:25:22all sorts of queries for eight different categories.
  • 00:25:26Not just marketing related, also super technical and we're really proud now.
  • 00:25:32We had IT service management HR software project management collaboration internet CRM SEO tools time tracking email marketing And it was very interesting.
  • 00:25:41so you can check out the study in the link description or search for it.
  • 00:25:45OMR Reviews Radyant Software Study.
  • 00:25:47You should find on Google or ChatGPT But maybe let's go to that moment again or a little bit fast forward the timeline between panic mode, which is I think absolutely understandable.
  • 00:26:01A lot of people had this Or may be still have this if they are not like Jumping on the AI search train already and then you block the crawlers And what was the?
  • 00:26:12What was the moment when you decided okay This is probably not The right long-term strategy to block the crawlers into?
  • 00:26:18basically create a create a walled garden?
  • 00:26:21I
  • 00:26:23think there wasn't then a single moment where we decided that, but it came from basically also me.
  • 00:26:31But other parts of the leadership team as well are really diving deep in all this AI search stuff and learning about this.
  • 00:26:40I talked to Thomas from Otterly.
  • 00:26:48I talk to you and the more learned about this, the more realized.
  • 00:26:53wait a minute!
  • 00:26:53This is not channel that's going away.
  • 00:26:56Significant parts of software research phase are there probably coming back because now it works.
  • 00:27:04You don't want search in Google and click on hundred links.
  • 00:27:08get your information basically extracted on your own to get all the information that you need, but go into AI chatbots because it's so much more convenient.
  • 00:27:20just check out there and say who are.
  • 00:27:23Say what use cases do have?
  • 00:27:25What are your limitations or features important for them?
  • 00:27:29Just go right in context.
  • 00:27:33then already get a short list figured-out from an AI chatbot.
  • 00:27:41And this is exactly where content of OMR Reviews are strong, especially in creating the first shortlist stage for the software research process.
  • 00:27:52Because it's also where software vendors want to be if somebody asks me what kind of solution I need and I just don't know which vendor they're there that I want to check out more in-depth.
  • 00:28:11This is exactly where you wanna be because this is exactly were pipeline gets created and their opportunity get's.
  • 00:28:17create it, And these are the review platforms especially we German speaking markets very strong by realising that.
  • 00:28:25i said wait a minute.
  • 00:28:27its stupid idea.
  • 00:28:29block those crawlers from visiting our site because they want to go there, because they find neutral information.
  • 00:28:38They're defined in formation that not a software vendors writes about himself but also what users are writing about the tool and this is also how the lists get built.
  • 00:28:48How you know?
  • 00:28:50Our list that we were doing.
  • 00:28:53We're Doing Also A lot of Listicles In Every Software Categories And This Is Especially Also Very Very attractive link source for AI chatbot, but they are based on user reviews.
  • 00:29:07So basically no fake faking around this.
  • 00:29:10if more users find one tool good This tool lands on number one.
  • 00:29:16and because this is such a cool And relevant and trustworthy information to basically get Get the information as an LLM bot from.
  • 00:29:28it's really, really stupid idea to block those from visiting our pages.
  • 00:29:33Now given how your AI search journey started basically?
  • 00:29:37It started with this frightening moment of AI overview rollout.
  • 00:29:45where are you now?
  • 00:29:47so is demand for or reviews still the same as it was back then when you already had a good position Increased because of your new relevancy given the whole AI search citations that you have.
  • 00:30:02I think i know, The answer already but i'm still curious to hear.
  • 00:30:06Then i'm curious take a guess.
  • 00:30:08Yeah so my guess would be That A lot Of people Especially in the software companies Have understood this is a significant shift In user behavior and alot People are turning to ChatGPT, Claude etc.
  • 00:30:23And then they're If they made the realization that the answer there is not just completely random, but it's in a lot of cases grounded on web search and you can check the citations.
  • 00:30:35And then smart people like you are able to tell these people hey look Oh my reviews is a very relevant citation.
  • 00:30:42So if you're visible on our platform, If we invest in your profile or now platform?
  • 00:30:46If you invest and genuine user reviews etc.
  • 00:30:49It will not only give you authority and all this stuff it has already given You pre AI search but now its also giving you This front door entry to being part of the AI search response.
  • 00:31:01that would be My guess.
  • 00:31:02so I think demand for Your platform has probably spiked.
  • 00:31:07Exactly right.
  • 00:31:10Just as you said, I think we had a very difficult twenty-twenty four but since last year and this year were growing faster than ever where the platform are going towards ten million in revenue which is quite amazing because it's really significant part of OMR by now from starting us a little corona site project five years ago.
  • 00:31:35And as you said, demand is growing.
  • 00:31:39We also invest a lot in thought leadership doing webinars for example with you being active on LinkedIn and really trying to put out the word of AI search and really try to help understand this whole new marketing discipline where there's big black box stills by every day.
  • 00:31:58we're learning much more And we're trying to really do this and share knowledge, share insights around us.
  • 00:32:08By doing so... We are getting more demand than ever.
  • 00:32:12because as you said back then I think trust in authority is now with LLMs even more important Because they even stronger than Google.
  • 00:32:27I'm now also looking into trust signals.
  • 00:32:29They're really checking out what users are saying in the open web.
  • 00:32:33It's not just important What you do on site with your own content and how you structure that The influence of everything that happens off-site.
  • 00:32:42So, what media writes about?
  • 00:32:44You want user say on review platform but also would use us a unread it.
  • 00:32:49i mean Of course different from chatbot to chatbot How this is weighted.
  • 00:32:53But Overall, the trend is really clear that off-site signals and off-side authority trust signals are super important when you want to be successful in AI search.
  • 00:33:06And this is exactly where we sit with our solution.
  • 00:33:09We stand for trust, we stand for user reviews That are verified by us.
  • 00:33:17So we create basically this trust layer in between the user and a software vendor that uses AI search To get to the right software solution.
  • 00:33:27Hmm, I want to play not really devil's advocate but it little bit like the critical interviewer here.
  • 00:33:37so Previously in the SEO era so-to say you had Google a little bit as your middleman And also other platforms had Google as the middleman.
  • 00:33:48For example, let's say Amazon and these platforms have historically always tried to cut out the middle man.
  • 00:33:54so Amazon has tried To get people to start their search on amazon if they want to buy some products.
  • 00:34:03Now OMR Reviews obviously very successfully made a shift from Google being the middleman to ChatGPT and I think it also is a testament.
  • 00:34:19A great platform with a lot of value will win in whatever ecosystem, but that set aside now i'm wondering do you also thing about like can we start uh, getting users to start their software journey or building their shortlist right on OMR Reviews.
  • 00:34:40So not going to ChatGPT having OMR Reviews cited great good job.
  • 00:34:46but so they type omr.com/reviews I think is the right domain?
  • 00:34:52They type that into there a browser bar instead of typing ChatGPT or Claude how do you think about that?
  • 00:35:00um for sure has always been important.
  • 00:35:04It also was a question that we already asked ourselves in.
  • 00:35:07Two thousand twenty one and two thousand twenty-two, when we decided to go big on our organic search it Was always the question okay but how can We make the user experience as good That The next time users navigate straight to OMR Reviews And not just and Not do the Go to middle way via Google or Via chatbot?
  • 00:35:32This is still A Question.
  • 00:35:34We, of course tried to make the user experience on our platform better.
  • 00:35:39For example we introduced an AI buying assistant kind of like a chatbot that is taking his knowledge from all the information available in OMR Reviews.
  • 00:35:52so the user reviews and content are there basically more focused large language model behind this than when you go into open web And we think this could be a really cool way for users that are in the DACH region to chat directly with a chatbot, that learns from content and learn reviews.
  • 00:36:14That also having these country contexts so basically much more focused than general LLM.
  • 00:36:23but our path there is going two ways For sure trying still gain the traction and gained a visibility in LLMs, but also when people are coming to our platform that they use our platform.
  • 00:36:41And we see for example I think many vendors see this People that are coming from an LLM chat, but they spend significantly more time and visit significantly more pages on OMR Reviews than the ones.
  • 00:36:58That you know when went to a platform.
  • 00:37:01um From any other way.
  • 00:37:04We talked about a lot of great aspects off LLMs And I search where your really benefited.
  • 00:37:09i would say one maybe potential downside is also that llms make it very easy for people To write convincing fake reviews And also write them at scale and somehow try to manipulate, because always historically every platform that does rankings.
  • 00:37:26Every platforms has influence.
  • 00:37:28people tried to manipulate it.
  • 00:37:30I mean if we have a bad mood on the day We will maybe say SEO is manipulating the algorithm.
  • 00:37:38Obviously no!
  • 00:37:39We would provide value for you.
  • 00:37:43How do you try to protect the platform against that influence, which can obviously harm your standing significantly?
  • 00:37:51Yeah for sure.
  • 00:37:53We had a lot of cases where people tried to circumvent our defense mechanics in order to write a lot fake reviews and profit from some incentive vendors sometimes give in order to gain reviews on the platform.
  • 00:38:14A number that I brought with me is twenty-five percent, and only twenty five per cent of our reviews are started actually makes it onto the platform because we filter out a lot of stuff that we think okay wait a minute there's something some something isn't checking here and we do this mechanically.
  • 00:38:41but as well there's always a human in the loop.
  • 00:38:46So when a review comes onto OMR Reviews, first thing that you did is filter at the beginning because to write an OMR review you have, for example,, sign in with your LinkedIn account or sign-in with a business email address.
  • 00:39:02So basically give us away to check.
  • 00:39:04okay is there really person behind this that are... That it's also somehow findable online right?
  • 00:39:13There we can say Okay This is the person who exists and writing review but then look into sickness on what this person is writing.
  • 00:39:24and we have mechanics in place on our platform.
  • 00:39:26that gives us a score.
  • 00:39:28So by how much chance is there, this somehow not valid?
  • 00:39:36And it give you the score from zero to one hundred percent!
  • 00:39:38Everything above.
  • 00:39:40I would say... Not quite sure about this but i think its also twenty five percent.
  • 00:39:45everything has scored above.
  • 00:39:46twenty-five percent gets blocked A feedback to the user.
  • 00:39:53Hey, we're not quite sure.
  • 00:39:57if you really use this software can you please send us a screenshot of you logged in for example In this platform in order to make sure okay?
  • 00:40:06This is really users writing about The Software and then We also check in again manually.
  • 00:40:14So Christine from our team, she's our head of reviews.
  • 00:40:20So basically you really had up.
  • 00:40:21the user generated content and it comes onto a platform.
  • 00:40:25in the end She is checking every single review that makes us into pre-selection In order to make it on the platform again.
  • 00:40:35checks it sees okay.
  • 00:40:36Is there a real person behind it?
  • 00:40:38Does this look like valid content, does that show signs of typical AI chatbots sentence structures?
  • 00:40:50and if we say okay check only then it gets onto the platform.
  • 00:40:54And as I said the rate is twenty five percent.
  • 00:40:58Okay sounds pretty sophisticated.
  • 00:41:01so i would actually uh if you listen to this don't try to fake your way up to a good rating.
  • 00:41:08um but speaking of i'm curious.
  • 00:41:12so I think a lot of people sometimes think about review platforms like OMR Reviews as being expensive.
  • 00:41:21So they have to buy a certain package or something to start having a profile there.
  • 00:41:28I know you that this is a common misbelief, but can you maybe give for people who are interested and have not yet created the review profile or done anything in that sense.
  • 00:41:41Can you may be giving them your top two-three actions on what should software vendor do if they want to benefit from OMR Reviews' gains in LLMs?
  • 00:41:57Yeah,
  • 00:41:57for sure.
  • 00:41:59The first thing if you don't have a profile on OMR Reviews yet and you're selling software in Germany, Austria and Switzerland go ahead and list your software on OMR Reviews.
  • 00:42:10we list quite a lot of software um In our research team anyway.
  • 00:42:15Um If we start new categories We will list the preselection vendors Anyway.
  • 00:42:19But if you are not there yet And You see okay I Don't Have A Profile Yet and go ahead enlisted.
  • 00:42:24And this listing is completely for free, so there's no money involved yet because we as a platform be profit from having good market overview in really the relevant players on our platform.
  • 00:42:37The other thing that it totally for free Because we also profit if there's a lot of reviews on our platform.
  • 00:42:49We will say this is something that you can do, If You Don't Pay a single penny to OMR Reviews Get Your Users And Ask Them To Write Sent In Your Profile There And Ask Can You Please Write A Review There?
  • 00:43:02What we monetize is basically the infrastructure behind this on making it easier for you as a vendor to collect reviews, right?
  • 00:43:09We then provide personalized links.
  • 00:43:22basically non-saying reviews on our platform, which separates us for example from big review platforms.
  • 00:43:31In generalists like Google where you can leave a review in one sentence say good product please buy this.
  • 00:43:41but our reviews are really in depth and they take approximately fifteen minutes to complete because we ask a lot of stuff.
  • 00:43:48We also asked for little bit in depth.
  • 00:43:51Basically, for this effort a reviewer takes they can profit from a little incentive.
  • 00:43:59For example in a voucher and that's the infrastructure we then provide if you want to basically enforces an amplifier and make it a lot easier for you in order to get reviews.
  • 00:44:14But, in the end its totally possible that your vendor does not pay a single dollar to OMR Reviews.
  • 00:44:21but still our category leader is number one most present tool in a listicle.
  • 00:44:26we write only by working with the platform organically.
  • 00:44:32this really important because common misconception and you get visibility if you pay.
  • 00:44:39And this is really not true, You pay for getting the infrastructure behind it... ...you pay to get a better chance to customize your profile even more.
  • 00:44:54put some white papers there for example Put tutorials so basically creating more content on your profile.
  • 00:45:03But in the end, the visibility benefits is a working game.
  • 00:45:11Another paying game you need to work in order to get your user reviews on OMR Reviews And then you gain traction.
  • 00:45:21You grow in software categories two better rankings.
  • 00:45:26Then let's quickly cover the incentivizing review part because I know that some people say You basically pay people to give positive reviews.
  • 00:45:39I think this is also a common misconception, what would you say?
  • 00:45:45We do not pay for good opinion but we pay for our opinions and really advise everyone.
  • 00:45:55ask all your user base Also the ones that are probably not so happy because this is market feedback and this helps you again being more trusted, getting more authority.
  • 00:46:11What I mean by that?
  • 00:46:12Because You also get a chance as software vendor to answer two reviews And say, okay if there's for example somebody who said I'm not happy with this in this part.
  • 00:46:22That is the perfect chance as a software vendor to go into conversation and say hey!
  • 00:46:26This really great feedback that helped us a lot improving our product.
  • 00:46:29we basically solved these problems.
  • 00:46:31now here are solutions.
  • 00:46:33you don't have problem anymore.
  • 00:46:36nothing more trustworthy than listening to user feedback answering it.
  • 00:46:47There's also a study that says it is much more trustworthy if your profile has the score of four point zero to four point five than a profile.
  • 00:46:59That has only five star reviews because this is the first thing that people are looking into.
  • 00:47:04an essay, If This Is Like A Only Five Star Profile Wait a minute, there's something that is not right.
  • 00:47:11And I actually don't want to look into this further because i'm really actively searching for those two and three star and four-star reviews in order To really get a balanced view on the tool?
  • 00:47:24This why when vendors ask us how should we do it?
  • 00:47:30what shall We say?
  • 00:47:31okay please get The full picture onboard Because this will Actually help you.
  • 00:47:35then every department of your company will benefit from the review.
  • 00:47:40Also product, customer marketing and customer success.
  • 00:47:43everyone knows then this is basically an action task for a company to get better.
  • 00:47:49if you get critical constructive reviews
  • 00:47:55Little bit counterintuitive take away for people listening you might actually also want to get people To leave a review that are like mediocre happy Like.
  • 00:48:06maybe just give three two five or three out of five stars Or four other five stars because in the end it will help You to have more genuine and authentic And trustworthy profile instead Of having fifty reviews, five out of Five Stars where A lot People with question is this really legit?
  • 00:48:23Correct.
  • 00:48:24Yes And I would say, yeah.
  • 00:48:27Helps always helps especially showing that you take this feedback seriously.
  • 00:48:33I think this is something where probably a lot of people have a hard time accepting this.
  • 00:48:38but it's good to hear from someone who is very deep in the trenches Speaking about being deeply in the trenches... ...I'm carrying with me since I was attending a very nice dinner actually hosted by OMR Reviews alongside the OMR conference in this May, in twenty-twenty six.
  • 00:49:03For everybody that does not know or is not aware of it, OMA Festival, Oma Conference and my festival's official name Again happening in twenty-twenty seven it would probably also happen to eighty eight and so on.
  • 00:49:18Yeah, but I'm pretty sure in Hamburg in May.
  • 00:49:21So also be sure to check this out is if you've never been there i think its a very cool experience But have been at this great dinner And people were talking about Vibe coding so building your own software Your own tools with Claude Code or Lovable etc... And then that was the sentiment obviously, because there were a lot of software vendors.
  • 00:49:43This might not be a good idea if you really rely on the software... ...because we have to care about maintenance and security etc.
  • 00:49:50And I totally get that.
  • 00:49:52but still i see some products getting bigger and bigger when you just need a fraction of the tools provided.
  • 00:50:01So these all-in one tools only two or three parts are needed.
  • 00:50:06And then I had this crazy idea, and i want to get your opinion on it.
  • 00:50:10Wouldn't there be a feasible solution for software vendors?
  • 00:50:14To provide parts of their software like modules so let's say for HubSpot for example the sales module with pipeline and offers in all that The signature solution maybe from Calendly or like these as schedulers, maybe their module so that someone can build their own software with Claude Code or Lovable but then integrate this critical parts into the software and not having to rebuild something That has already been done.
  • 00:50:45And then paying for that obviously some sort of licensing fee Or I don't know period.
  • 00:50:50what do you think about?
  • 00:50:52Maybe a little crazy idea?
  • 00:50:54I don't think it's a crazy idea at all.
  • 00:50:56And we already seeing signs in the market that exactly this is happening, sales force strategy two or three years ago was okay.
  • 00:51:07We are closed shop and do not let everyone in.
  • 00:51:09now they completely changed and said Okay!
  • 00:51:24those companies have figured out is maintenance, security compliance with all the market regulations and everything.
  • 00:51:35And this is super hard to build on your own that it's a biggest weak spot.
  • 00:51:39when you are now going out and say I'm vibe coding everything myself because then you also think about that those companies have done in the past to get where they are now.
  • 00:51:54And this is huge, I mean a total cost of ownership.
  • 00:51:58creating your own vibe-coded solution and basically scale with it and scale through these two international markets and so on and so forth... ...is big!
  • 00:52:05Now then you'll do all those licenses or certifications etc.
  • 00:52:11Therefore i think definitely be the future of software to create parts of this functionalities that are then in complying with all the laws, in compiling with all GDPR compliances and everything.
  • 00:52:27And basically offer those part of your software headless In order to then vibe code your own solution That fits a little bit better into your needs.
  • 00:52:38Then I created it because power of a vibe coding lies in customizability.
  • 00:52:46So because you really can't build exactly the OS, exactly this CRM that you need for your company or background but don't want to have all those nerve wrecking and hygiene factors that the big software vendors had thought about years ago already.
  • 00:53:15So I would say it's actually a really, really good idea and is exactly where software could be going?
  • 00:53:23Yeah maybe you should buy the idea for million dollars!
  • 00:53:28If you do not buy the other review platforms, no just kidding.
  • 00:53:33Ideas are cheap.
  • 00:53:34execution is everything.
  • 00:53:36we've learned that quite often.
  • 00:53:38but even if we don't think about like vibe coding and integrating these software pieces as modules from what you see in here Do also feel basically every software vendor now should have an mcp or a connector to ChatGPT and Claude because people don't just use ChatGPT, Claude et cetera for searching.
  • 00:54:02And for research as we have already also talked about but also four being their new go-to interface like that daily driver instead of the software ui.
  • 00:54:13i would say probably not for a majority of use cases, this is exactly what we are seeing.
  • 00:54:24I think my colleague Felix said in our State of SaaS keynote at the OMR festival earlier this year that the interface was really going into the chat off those tools and i think many people out there especially tech space Typical day in the life of a marketer on live oven developer or everything is your open Claude at the beginning of you're Day and then Claude already gives You basically A checklist are things to do under they?
  • 00:54:59what comes up?
  • 00:55:00And this is Basically where you organize yourself, and Where were you basically living now an outside.
  • 00:55:07This Is why for most Software vendors especially the ones that help you, for example creating stuff or analyzing stuff.
  • 00:55:20Having an MCP is extremely beneficial because basically open up your software solution to where people are actually spending time and when they get their work done.
  • 00:55:33but I think there's also exceptions from this rule.
  • 00:55:40I would have to think a little bit more about this.
  • 00:55:43What those exceptions might be?
  • 00:55:50That's for an update episode!
  • 00:55:52Yeah, but it makes sense to open up your software solution in places where people are actually working and getting their stuff done.
  • 00:56:04Now before we wrap things up a little bit I have A final thing in mind because when they were talking about so not necessarily you and me, but the market also are talking About agentic commerce Which is obviously something that was very hyped.
  • 00:56:22then ChatGPT discontinued some of The Things And Then focus more on the ads product etc.
  • 00:56:28So i would say it's at um, the relationship status is complicated with agentic commerce.
  • 00:56:35But still I think most of the conversation was around.
  • 00:56:38basically how can you connect your Shopify store to chatchapity so people can buy a perfume?
  • 00:56:45i don't know an new iPhone case or something like that from ChatGPT.
  • 00:56:51How do you see agentic commerce going into the btob software space?
  • 00:56:56will people Say to Claude.
  • 00:56:58Hey, I need.
  • 00:57:00so what do we need?
  • 00:57:01a new email marketing provider?
  • 00:57:05Ideally it has an mcp and be connected to Claude.
  • 00:57:09This is my budget.
  • 00:57:10yeah please go and let me know when i have to sign the offer.
  • 00:57:15Will this be in the future?
  • 00:57:16Yeah,
  • 00:57:18i mean definitely could be.
  • 00:57:20but What i am really convinced about Is In The End It Is People Having to sign the offer and it's people having to defend their decision in front of a board.
  • 00:57:32In front of leader, in-in-in front of their manager.
  • 00:57:36so in the end you still as a person?
  • 00:57:41You act especially also hinder German speaking markets risk averse and you want to say okay, You've done your homework here as well.
  • 00:57:48You didn't just go out And let the AI chatbot buy everything from you?
  • 00:57:53Then in the end Everything breaks!
  • 00:57:56So right who's accountable for this?
  • 00:58:01It was Claude it wasn't me
  • 00:58:03Exactly but your manager is going To Say Okay I'm not sure how i can now talk to Claude about This.
  • 00:58:14Let's talk about ownership and responsibility for a second here, my friend.
  • 00:58:18Correct!
  • 00:58:19And I think this accountability on ownership in the end is exactly where social proof comes in.
  • 00:58:27You want to show them you've done your homework... ...and check it as well.
  • 00:58:32This trust layer will still be totally important.
  • 00:58:41The only The only scenario, I think there's not important is rent.
  • 00:58:45Really everything is going agentic and nobody has to work anymore And nobody has too Has to defend their decisions in buying decisions any more.
  • 00:58:53but then we talk about a whole lot of future.
  • 00:58:56so this trust layer between the decision where you Show you've done your homework well You show?
  • 00:59:02You talked to people you've got that social proof you have seen you've written you read reviews about the software solution, this in between.
  • 00:59:14This will still be totally important.
  • 00:59:16so just trust layer wouldn't go away and that's exactly where we sit.
  • 00:59:20How are our solutions looks then?
  • 00:59:21In five to ten years maybe it could completely different but as long as this doesn't change I think there is a space for this infrastructure.
  • 00:59:33Then obviously only becomes relevant if Claude CEO has to argue with Claude CMO about what the hell he just bought for software and why He improved a five million budget for it.
  • 00:59:45But yeah, let's see what Claude cfo will then say to that.
  • 00:59:51So so final question than If you reflect little bit on what we talked about always.
  • 00:59:56my final question because sometimes It brings some interesting thoughts to the table.
  • 01:00:01What didn't we talk about that?
  • 01:00:03We should have talked about.
  • 01:00:05That's a really good question.
  • 01:00:07Surprise!
  • 01:00:12I would say, currently the holy grail of Geo and AI search is everything related measurement because basically influence of AI search Is super hard to attribute Because of course you can run models and count your citations, and count the mentions.
  • 01:00:36But right now there is no good solution for measuring your influence on pipeline or lead.
  • 01:00:47You always see an incremental uplift when doing post-purchase studies or if you have self-reported attribution, so basically asking your user in place and they say it's probably from AI Search but there is currently no good way to really make this influence be measured very well.
  • 01:01:12And not because also all those LLM providers are a black book yet and don't even want to show how much search has happened here.
  • 01:01:24The one that is figuring this part out, the measurement part.
  • 01:01:27I would really love to talk too because it's exactly where i think This right now stopping most teams That have not started with AI search yet Because they cannot see the influence of AI search click-based to say okay I know this is the channel that's important and has attributed.
  • 01:02:00Two hundred thirty thousand euro in revenue only in a first quarter, one of us figuring out.
  • 01:02:07how do you do this?
  • 01:02:09This was something i would love talk about.
  • 01:02:12perfect unscripted bridge to a final block of advertising for the muscle search.
  • 01:02:19conference october twenty second in berlin presented by Radyant and in partnership with OMR Reviews and Peec AI.
  • 01:02:26I'm not one hundred percent sure if someone has this holy grail figured out but when i am one hundred per cent sure is that there will be people that share how they think about.
  • 01:02:37what did it work they tried, come as close is possible to really proving this influence.
  • 01:02:45so i think it's very.
  • 01:02:48Very good lineup, I have read this very interesting post from Tim Soulo, who's CMO at Ahrefs.
  • 01:02:53he said basically and paraphrasing the best rule of thumb for putting together a conference his having a speaker line up that you would love too attend.
  • 01:03:06so And if you do this basically, then mostly the conference will turn out great.
  • 01:03:11I can say that everybody has come into the conference and sharing something on stage i'm genuinely excited about so would love to also see everybody of you listening or watching this there.
  • 01:03:24but yeah maven thanks so much for their awesome conversation.
  • 01:03:28anything we should put in the description anything left anything where he was saying it people want too.
  • 01:03:35Take the thoughts and like, the inspiration they got from this conversation.
  • 01:03:40How would I can continue with it?
  • 01:03:44What's left to share?
  • 01:03:46Yeah very good question!
  • 01:03:49If you want to connect... ...I've started a little bit more active on LinkedIn so reach out to me.
  • 01:03:55we get into conversations there.
  • 01:03:57I would love to.
  • 01:03:58Also, a thing that came through the AI search because before then it really didn't have any idea what you talk about on LinkedIn.
  • 01:04:05now i Have a nice topic where can connect with people like You and actually loved That?
  • 01:04:11The second Thing?
  • 01:04:13If your intrigued by this study we did together Where basically was over twenty thousand chats analyzed Over eight thousand prompts And no not so many prompts but Eight Thousand Answers Analyzed a lot of cool inside and value in there.
  • 01:04:33so check it out.
  • 01:04:34And then, I'm also going to be part of the master search conference end October and have to pleasure talk about how we shifted from traffic to citations as north star metric what I talked to today about.
  • 01:04:52But there's a whole keynote on everything, how we restructure our content production and how our prompt tracking is working... So if you want to come by here and have chat with me there?
  • 01:05:06I'd love too!
  • 01:05:07Nice If you spoil that much today.
  • 01:05:09You still have A little bit of time left To come up With new slides for the Keynote.
  • 01:05:16I would say a little
  • 01:05:18bit there so that people come to the conference and check it out.
  • 01:05:23So cool, so cool!
  • 01:05:24Marvin thanks for taking time.
  • 01:05:27all of your best greetings to Hamburg And yeah was very great talking you today on The Masters of Search podcast.
  • 01:05:36Thankyou so much for having me.
  • 01:05:37i hope There's some new insights for listeners.
  • 01:05:41A hundred percent im sure See You Bye
  • 01:05:44bye.